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Tuesday, January 08, 2008

My Opinion of the Elliott Wave

Since I started trading the Elliott wave in 1995, I qualify as an experienced Elliottician. I traded the Elliott wave following the Beckman method (see Amazon link at then of this article). The basics of the Beckman method is that an impulse move tends to remain between two trend lines that for a channel. Starting at a mayor bottom, an impulse rally is followed by a corrective wave. Draw a line between the mayor bottom and the bottom of the first correction. Then draw a parallel line to this one, starting at the top of the first rally (wave 1), to estimate the possible end of wave 3. The parallel line MUST be exceeded significantly. This was a great approach during the bull market of the late 90’s. This is how I first started trading options because I could easily tell when a correction was over, and at the bottom of the market, call options were usually cheap.

One not-so-good friend told me that the one thing he new about technical analysis methods is: “it works until it doesn’t”. My time of reckoning came in Sept 29, 2000. In the chart below, you see my channeling analysis on AAPL computer back in Aug. 2000. My expectation was for AAPL to go to new highs, as the 5th wave as yet to complete. My projection from the top of wave 3 was for wave 5 to complete at around $80 (split adjusted $40). Note: This analysis was done manually, using the channeling approach of Beckman using Photoshop on a screenshot of the RET chart.


Please click on image to enlarge it.


Instead, AAPL collapsed, from what then was about $63 a share to $28 a share overnight.

Please click on image to enlarge it.

In one single day, my confidence about owning stock (I had a large position on AAPL since 1997) and about my ability to read the Elliott wave was shattered, which was a good thing, because in the months to follow, I sold most of my stock holdings. I decided then and there that no matter what the system I used to interpret and that depended on my ability to read it could only be a probabilities game. From that point on, I decided to trade options ONLY. I had been doing it for a while, but I knew that AAPL was only the tip of the iceberg. AAPL was a wake up call to me. I thought then that there must be a better way. A way I could use options to limit my risk while maximizing my profits with leverage. Despite my big loses that day, I learned some invaluable lessons that are with my today:

1. Stocks are not a safe investment unless you limit your risk. Some approaches to accomplish this may include selling covered calls, buying married puts or both (a collar).
2. Any technical analysis you may use is in the end subjective and your own perception dictates what you believe or not. Technical analysis is a probabilities game and you may be very wrong in some, if not many cases.
3. Using options one can limit the risk in one individual trade, no matter what your forecast. It is better to lose 2% of our account than 10% of your account in one single overnight debacle like AAPL’s in that fateful day.
4. The last lesson was more of a question or a challenge I put to myself: there must be an options strategy that could take advantage of the two most powerful features of options: Risk management and Leverage.

I have gone back to the Elliott wave analysis using RET (I did not have this software back then) and picked a result that I could have live with back then. Notice how the analysis would have warned me that the wave 1 was concluded, but that a second stab at the highs was still likely before the collapse.


Please click on image to enlarge it.

People ask me from time to time what do I think of the Elliott wave, and whether the RET is worth the money. I’d say it is worth the money if you can examine a analysis critically and say: I agree with this count. In the end it is always a probabilities’ game and no matter what system you use, you are always in a “yes-no-maybe-so” situation.

My relationship with the Elliott wave is a love-hate one. You cannot help but believing that there is a logic to the chaos of the markets, and we would like to think that if we could bring order to that chaos, then riches would be just around the corner. For a time, I had that kind of results. I never made so much money in terms of ROR as in 1998 trading options, using my channeling approach and buying long calls. Complementing the Elliott wave with options to limit your risk can be quite profitable, but be sure that you limit your loss to 2% of your account in every trade you enter.

You can also do away with any technical or fundamental analysis by using my trading system of picking stocks right after earnings and the placing a PCCRC. After many years of searching, testing and actually trading the PCCRC, I am convinced that this approach fits my challenge in point 4 above. Today, I can use RET and TOS’s software to manag my trades. I have accumulated over a decade of experience on the Elliott wave and technical analysis, as well as a good understanding of options. I can say with confidence that I can place large trades using the PCCRC, and if another Sept 29, 2000 was to happen, I would actually profit handsomely, and that allows me to sleep well at night.





http://www.amazon.com/Elliott-Wave-Explained-Robert-Beckman/dp/8170945321/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1199811275&sr=8-1

7 comments:

Anonymous said...

Hi Juan,

I have read thru your site and I think your options trading has value, and I want to comment more as time goes by, and as I gain experience.

Having said that, the one thing that turned me off was your earlier statements on and belief in EW. I am no statistician but in the last year or two I've become exposed to basic time series analysis and techniques such as bootstrapping. I have come to view EW and many other similar TA as statistically bogus. Without a clear and obvious trend, it is often just red noise.

However, if you or anyone wants to use EW or any other method it is certainly legitimate to use provided money management and risk/reward is used. Just don't think you have anything *magical*.

Also, one thing I like about your option strategy is that direction is not *that* important (so the hell with EW anyway) and your emphasis on earnings dates brings a catalyst to volatility or, such as it is, direction. Sorry to bring fundamentals into it, but I've about decided it is the only thing that gets you away from the statistical noise conundrum.

Best Regards,
Joel.

Juan Sarmiento said...

Thanks for your comments Joel. I tried to state my opinion as accurately and honestly as I could. So I think I let it stand as is, with much respect for your points, some of which I already stated myself.

Fundamentals alone are as good a predictor as the Elliott wave itself. I have had a few stocks going down after a strong post-earnings move (take a look at AZO, just to mention a recent one). With the PCCRC, my AZO trade is now profitable, so I am doing a lot more then relying on the Elliott wave.

Thanks a lot for your thoughts!

phil said...

Hi Juan,
I've noticed you have a lot of confidence in Elliotician for EW analysis; I'm curious if you have tried ProfitSource, and if so what you think of it. I know you have experience with Optionetics, so I figure you must also have seen ProfitSource, since it seems to be the EW tool they support.

Cheers,
Phil.

Juan Sarmiento said...

Phil, don't get me started!

I used AdvancedGet for a while, apparently the programs are quite similar if not identical, as far as the "Elliott wave" is concerned. I enter the quotation marks because what Ad.Get uses as Elliott wave does not fulfill basic tenets most of the time. But only an experienced Elliottician would figure that out.

I found myself hardly ever agreeing with the counts from Advanced Get. This is not just personal preference, the A.Get counts simply ignore common Elliott correction types such as Double Threes and Double zigzags. It would commonly name some series as impulsive when the proposed wave 1 is less than 10% the size of wave 3, which of course is not supported by Elliott wave theory.

Often times, it would suggest a wave 4 as completed when only one of the three waves that would form a wave 4 correction is completed.

In addition, A.Get does not recognize triangles, another very common correction type.

IF you find that these short-comings occur also in Profit Source, then as with A.Get, you are not dealing with Elliott wave analysis, you are dealing with a peculiar technical analysis strategy that they would say is quite reliable. Only you can determine if it is sufficiently reliable in your hands.

The Elliott wave is a rather complex theory that involves very strict tenets. To me RET is the one program that most thoroughly obeys the tenets. Still, I believe that only the human eye can really perceive if the pattern fits.

Anonymous said...

Hi Juan,



Hmmm, okay, good to know there may be problems with the ProfitSource analyses! I have followed your suggestion and downloaded the trial version of RET from Elliottician [version 1.8.06], and I wonder if you could give me a suggestion as to best way to get started in learning to use it. It looks and no doubt is very different to PSource. Any pointers from you would be very valuable.



And BTW I love the blog that you have built, I am finding it very useful - working my way through it slowly - and I am waiting until the DVDs arrive to get started on them also.



Thanks again Juan.



Cheers,

Phil.

Juan Sarmiento said...

Phil, I cannot comment much about ProfitSource because I never bought it. Although I know it works similarly to AdvancedGet, which I DO own and used for a short while, until I realize that it does not follow Elliott tenets. HOWEVER, Let me discuss the issue of Fibonacci trading, which they all seem to apply.

A strong impulse (5 waves) followed by a correction (3 waves) is easily recognized by AdvancedGet, and by Profit Source (for what I have seen). This is what they call a wave IV set up, or a type I buy. In reality it is no more than a rally followed by a correction matching a Fibonacci ratio.

Rich Swannelle, creator of RET and founder of Elliottician.com recently have come up with a similar "set up" called the zigzag. He believes that the RET can pick up this zigzags on their "B" wave, just in time for the final "C" wave. In reality, the two approaches do not differ that much. You simply BUY at the bottom of the market, following a fibonacci correction after a strong rally.

Here are the differences:

1. Swannelle does follow the Elliott tennets exactly, and the counts are believable, for any experienced elliottician.

2. RET lacks the search capability of Advanced Get or Profit Source. But these in turn are not good at labeling waves.

In my DVD 1, I describe how to create a search using a common piece of software like Telechart2000, or IQcharts. In the end you may have dozens of bullish or bearish trades.

I insist that if you understand Elliott wave and learn to recognize the 9 most common patterns with your own eyes, you should be able to select the good from the bad candidates. And there are very many bad candidates, no matter what search you use.

I am not sure if you are paying for yearly subscription for data with Profit Source and whether you can use the data for RET analysis. But you still need some kind of search capability to bring you some kind of candidates.

I think I just got tired thinking about this, could you imagine the daily effort just to find the right candidate? in the end is always a "yes-no-maybe-so".

If you are paying for subscription data, and don't seem to be making much progress in your trading, it is because you are substituting knowledge for software.

With the PCCRC, after earning strategy, all you need is in the TOS platform SCAN tab, which I also have explained in my disks.

My recommendation is cancel the subscriptions you can cancel, and keep the ones you cannot. Learn to use what you have to search for "Elliott candidates".

Ask all the questions you may want, send pictures of your candidates using Profit Source, let's try and put it to good use, if you cannot get rid of it.

Anonymous said...

Thanks Juan,
I will work on this some more, and will come back here when I have something we can maybe discuss together.

Cheers,
Phil.

EWI